Trial Tested

S13E5: The Science of Lawyer Wellbeing with Dr. Debra Austin

Trial lawyers live in a constant state of problem-solving, competition, and high stakes – exactly the kind of environment that can quietly push the brain into chronic fight-or-flight. In this episode, host Amy Gunn sits down with University of Denver law professor and lawyer-wellbeing expert Dr. Debra Austin, author of The Legal Brain, to unpack what stress actually does to the lawyer’s mind—and how to reverse the damage.

 

Never Too Late newsletter: Never Too Late by Debra Austin JD, PhD | Substack

Newsletter on how cats improve well-being: Cats Improve Well-being

Newsletter on how dogs improve well-being: Gratitude for Dogs - Never Too Late by Debra Austin JD, PhD

The Legal Brain: A Lawyer’s Guide to Well-being and Better Job Performance, is available at Barnes and Noble and Amazon. 

S13E4: Inside the Iran-Contra Affair and Beyond: Six Decades of Trial Advocacy with Jim Brosnahan

Host Vince Citro welcomes San Francisco attorney Jim Brosnahan to discuss a career shaped by formative childhood illness, early reading struggles, and an outsider’s sense of empathy. He describes his path from Boston College athlete to Harvard Law School, where he met his wife, Carol – later a judge – and reflects on early work as a federal prosector that affirmed his love of the courtroom. Brosnahan offers an inside account of his role as the lead prosecutor in the Iran-Contra case against Secretary of Defense Casper Weinberger, and how President George H. W. Bush’s last-minute pardons abruptly ended the case. He also discusses representing John Walker Lindh and how client abuse disclosures shaped the defense, as well as the broader duty of lawyers to defend constitutional principles. Throughout, Brosnahan highlights the value of civility, public service, and trial advocacy—grounded in preparation and a commitment to continual learning.

S13E3: Tough but Fair: Judge William Alsup on the Pursuit of Truth and Justice

Judge William Alsup of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California joins host Renée Rothauge to reflect on how his civil rights-era upbringing in Mississippi, his clerkship for U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas – where he contributed to Roe v. Wade and Sierra Club v. Morton – and his experiences as a trial attorney all shaped his judicial philosophy. He discusses his transition from private practice to the federal bench, his belief in the jury trial, and his enduring respect for the United States District Court. Alsup also shares insights from his novel The Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald and his memoir Won Over, revealing a lifetime devoted to fairness, truth, and the pursuit of justice.

S13E2: Protecting Children, Driving Reform and Providing Justice: An Interview with Bart Dalton

In this episode, Dave Thomas interviews Bart Dalton, former Delaware Chief Deputy Attorney General and 67th President of the American College of Trial Lawyers. Dalton reflects on his early career as a prosecutor, emphasizing how mistakes provide valuable opportunities to learn and grow as a trial attorney. After transitioning to private practice, he built a distinguished career, including representing Frank Sheeran, whose story inspired the book and later the film, The Irishman. Later, Dalton focused on representing sexual abuse survivors across schools, the Olympics and religious institutions, helping drive systemic reforms. He discusses the importance of mentorship, integrity, and courage, highlighting College programs that support young lawyers and diversity while underscoring his lifelong commitment to shaping the next generation of trial lawyers.

 

S13E1: Inside the Stamler v. Willis Challenge to HUAC with Chet Kamin

Chicago attorney Chet Kamin joins host Amy Gunn to discuss his role in the landmark Stamler v. Willis litigation, which helped bring about the end of the House Un-American Activities Committee. Arguing that Dr. Jeremiah Stamler was targeted for his political beliefs, Kamin and his colleagues challenged the committee’s activities as unconstitutional and a violation of free expression. He reflects on the turbulent 1960s and 70s – marked by the Cold War, the Civil Rights movement, and a widespread public distrust of authority – and how societal change helped shape the judiciary’s role in protecting individual rights. Kamin also examines how threats to the Rule of Law persist today and emphasizes the importance of lawyers acting with integrity and courage to defend the Constitution.

S12E6: Benjamin Chew on High-Profile Trials, Media Scrutiny, and Building Trial Experience

Host Vince Citro welcomes Benjamin Chew, an acclaimed trial lawyer perhaps best known for representing Johnny Depp in the highly publicized defamation trial against Amber Heard. In this in-depth interview, Chew discusses his work on complex commercial disputes, international arbitration, and high-profile celebrity cases that make headlines around the world. He reflects on the challenges of advocating for clients under relentless media attention, the importance of collegiality and professionalism in trial practice, and why pro bono work can be one of the best ways for young attorneys to gain valuable trial experience.

S12E5: Bill Barton – The Lawyer Who Took on the Boy Scouts and Brought Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes to Life

* Please be advised that this episode discusses sensitive topics, including sexual abuse, and is intended for a mature audience.

Bill Barton joins host Renee Rothauge for a candid and compelling conversation about the experiences that shaped his journey to becoming one of the most respected – and intriguing – plaintiff lawyers in the United States. Known for his groundbreaking work bringing the first sexual abuse cases against the Boy Scouts of America and the Vatican, Barton’s career is the result of hard work, dedication, and resilience. He’s also an author, writing a book titled Recovering for Psychological Damages, that became a go-to resource during the “Me Too” movement. Beyond the courtroom, Barton’s passion for history led him to study the life of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, a figure he has brought to life in a one-man performance for members of the U.S. Supreme Court, and one you’ll hear him embody on this episode of Trial Tested.

S12E4: A Conversation with Canadian Supreme Court Justice Mahmud Jamal

Justice Mahmud Jamal of the Supreme Court of Canada joins host Sandra Barton to share his journey from immigrant roots to Canada’s highest court. He offers a behind-the-scenes look at the collaborative and often philosophical work of judging, from preparing decisions to constitutional interpretation in a changing society. Justice Jamal also explores the evolving role of the judiciary in upholding the rule of law, advancing access to justice, and fostering public trust in an era of increasing legal complexity and rapidly advancing technology.

S12E3: From Defending Oprah to the First Amendment: Chip Babcock and Cases That Make Headlines

Texas trial attorney Chip Babcock joins host Mike Herring to reflect on a career shaped by storytelling, authenticity, and high-profile advocacy. From his early days in journalism to defending headline-making clients like Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Phil, and representing media giants such as Google and Warner Brothers, Babcock shares how credibility and sincerity in the courtroom build trust with juries—even under intense public scrutiny. He also recounts his defense in high-stakes defamation suits, including Dolcefino v. Turner, a case that drew national attention. With insights on trial strategy and media management, Babcock discusses how narrative, integrity, and public perception can all influence effective trial practice.

S12E2: Representing the Vulnerable: Criminal Defense with Mona Duckett

Canadian criminal defense lawyer Mona Duckett joins host Amy Gunn to share her insights on trial advocacy. Duckett recounts the successful appeal of an 18-year sentence in a manslaughter case involving decades of domestic abuse, arguing the plea warranted greater sentencing parity. She also describes defending a teen boy who was wrongfully charged – twice – with murder, first based on a coerced confession and later, a manipulative “Mr. Big” sting, highlighting systemic failures and police misconduct that ultimately prompted legal reforms to better protect youth. Reflecting on her journey, Duckett speaks candidly about the emotional demands and safety concerns of criminal defense work, particularly for women, and emphasizes the importance of boundaries, mentorship, and community within the profession.